"As if the women didn't exist, I was furious about that” Interview with Sanjam Sahi Gupta

Hi Sanjam, you brought WISTA to India. Can you tell us how this came to pass?

In 2001, my sister and I joined the family business. Back then, when we went to meetings and gatherings, there were hardly any women in the room, and we were either assumed to be someone's secretary or simply ignored. There was one particular meeting where the speaker addressed the participants as gentlemen. It was as if the women didn't exist, and I was furious about that. When I searched the internet for women in shipping, I found the WISTA website. We needed ten members to form WISTA in India, but I couldn't find ten women willing to put down their names and addresses. So, the matter was put on hold. I had my son, and when he was five, I decided to try again. It was strange because I wanted another baby and my husband didn't, so WISTA became like another baby for me – and it's a girl, born in 2012. Starting WISTA in India, I had some selfish motives because I wanted to get support from women around me, and I wanted to meet more women in shipping. But as I immersed myself in WISTA and gender issues, I realised that there was nobody to go to for gender issues in India, so I became that person. I took on the role of advocating for women in the maritime industry. After one year of being in the organisation, I got elected to the board of WISTA International. I was on the board for seven years. It was a beautiful journey. WISTA has touched my life in many ways.

You said that you couldn't find enough women to form WISTA first. Would you say things have changed since then?

Yes, I think a lot of things have changed over the years. There are so many more women in business now. They may not be dominating the room, but they are making their presence felt. In 2012, when I needed ten members to build WISTA in India, I first looked at home, where I found two women to join me. Then I got seven more ladies to commit to being our founding members. Today, things are already much better. But we are still in the first phase. We absolutely need more women in senior leadership positions. We need to go further, to widen the path for women in business. The first women have the responsibility to open the doors for those who follow in their footsteps.

Are the families ready for this kind of change in India?

Among other things, that depends on where they are from. The smaller cities and towns are more patriarchal than the big cities in India, and I think it is more difficult to break the patterns up in such areas. But it depends on the family. I come from a very progressive family. My father is often told that he is a poor man for having no sons who can take over the business one day, and that maybe the husbands of his daughters could do it. But my father would always respond with pride that his two daughters are running the family business. My parents were extremely supportive on our way into the business. And that has been an inspiration to other families around us. But it is still the exception. My parents-in-law are great people, but when it comes to my career, they are way more traditional than my parents. No daughter-in-law of my husband’s family had ever worked. It's just a mindset that is so ingrained, but I'm sure it will change.

Unfortunately, it also often happens that you have to assert yourself in front of other women. I have met other Indian women, especially those older than me, really try to pull me down and make my life miserable. I call this the “mother-in-law syndrome”. But in fact, it has only made me stronger. All the amazing and supportive women I have met along the way have shown me that change is possible. It is very important that we support each other instead of tearing each other down.

Shipping is very traditional. In Germany, it is a male-dominated industry, and even more so in India I would imagine. Is it frustrating sometimes to work in such an environment?

It is. For example, a few years ago we were at an industry meeting, and when we walked in, someone made a comment that now the glamour element has come into the room. And you really want to tell them that you are not there to provide glamour and entertainment to them, and that we are as serious as they are. They figuratively pat you on the head and think you are the little lady in the room. They don't take you seriously and might comment on your looks or appearance. It is exhausting.

What motivated you to found SheEO in 2019?

When I applied for the Sandvik Gender Award in 2018 at the urging of Dr. Malini Shankar. I won and got my research funded to get data for women in shipping in India. We realised that there were very few women in leadership positions, and that's how SheEO was born in 2019. The organisation is committed to supporting women on their path to leadership. We have a leadership accelerator programme for women in shipping, which has been funded by the International Maritime Organization (IMO). I think women are actually quite progressive and want to step up. What they really need is opportunities. That’s why we have the leadership programme. We have had so many women who have actually been risen to different positions in their careers. So, we can see that such programmes really do have an effect.

What do you think Hapag-Lloyd can do to promote the development of women in the maritime industry?

It would be great if Hapag-Lloyd could get a corporate membership at WISTA, or if at least some women from your organisation became members and supported the organisation in this way. I would also be delighted to have you as a partner for our next conference in November 2024. That would be a great help. But it is also important to mention that there is a need for more research. You can contribute a lot by funding and supporting research that helps women in the maritime sector.